Episode 11, Game Changers and Transition Makers: Overflowing with ideas to put an end to plastic packaging

Elena:

Hello and welcome to ESG Matters at Ashurst. I'm Elena Lambros, the Ashurst's Risk Sustainability and Climate Change partner. Welcome to the latest episode of Game Changers and Transition Makers. In this series, I'll be speaking to entrepreneurs around the globe, at the forefront of driving sustainability agenda through innovative business ideas and company startups.

In this episode, I'll be joined by Raegan Kelly, Head of Product and Sustainability at Better For All, a California-based manufacturing company that produces bio-based cups. Welcome to the podcast and thanks for joining us today, we're so lucky to have you.

Raegan:

It's a pleasure to be here.

Elena:

So I have been looking up about Better For All, I'm really interested to hear about how this started. Would you like to just talk a little bit about yourself, your business and a bit more context around what it is and what you're trying to do?

Raegan:

So I am the head of product and messaging for Better For All. We are a trademark of our original company, which is called Geosphere, based in California. Family founded and owned. We set about in 2018 to take on plastic pollution, packaging primarily. And along the way, we really, I think because there were a lot of initiatives in California and the West Coast of the United States attacking the plastic straw, partly because of the poor turtle, but also I think it was a bit of a, I don't know, symbol of the larger problem in the U.S. We had been shipping our plastic pollution overseas, mostly to China, but basically to Southeast Asia and in all candour, I don't think any of us realised how much plastic we were throwing away and what a problem it was. And, we were finally beginning to see the size of it.

So we had this aha moment at some point, or I did where I said, "Oh my God for every straw, there's a cup, and probably more than one". And so, we took on cups and then became really aware, keenly aware of the fact that cups, many cups are made from many different materials. And so, they're not even recyclable. So we each set about making a cup that was made from one material, and optimally the most compostable and biodegradable material we could find at scale. And so, that fast forwards us to today, we've taken on the party cup, the event cup in the United States.

Elena:

Yeah, that's wonderful. Because I actually have this, I love coffee. I drink a lot of coffee and I'm always torn. I try to bring my own keep cup, but that's very difficult when you travel a lot and you're working long hours. And I always have this moment where I just feel so uncomfortable with what to do with my coffee cups, so I just...

Raegan:

Yeah. I know.

Elena:

So simple, but a very complicated and great idea to have, because you really don't realise how much plastic gets distributed all over the world. So, it's really interesting to hear. I'm really interested in understanding, given your background and the fact that people have been talking about what you do with coffee cups or those other cups that you mentioned for quite some time, how did you even know where to start in terms of developing it and growing it that way?

Raegan:

Yeah, so in the very beginning, we really took on cold drink cups and we did start with PLA, which you may or may not know, is a relatively ubiquitous compostable bioplastic, commercially compostable bioplastic. But I was doing a lot of research about materials, and I knew that PLA was only commercially compostable. It was very high heat sensitive, so we were getting stories from people that we were working with that the PLA cups were melting in the warehouse. We were in the middle of our last mega drought in California. Heat was terrible, people were starting to ban PLA because it was ending up in landfill and not breaking down in the environment. So, I knew I had to find a better material. And around the time, I interviewed a number of people around the world who were working in new materials and PHA popped up in one of my scientific articles.

I read about this magic material that would biodegrade fully on the beach and someone was making beach toys out of it, actually. So, I started looking for that. Found maybe three or four companies.

Now, I think I just heard somewhere that there's about 25 companies globally making, in some cases, one kilogram a week. But they're working on scaling up the production of PHAs. There's about 150 different PHAs that you can make. It's made by fermenting a carbon-rich feedstock, so you actually make it very similar to the way you make a beer or any ferment, kombucha.

You add this carbon rich feed stock to a big watery bath filled with microorganisms, and they consume it and convert it. So, we started working with a Japanese company that makes a PHBH and they make an injection mouldable compound that can be formed into a semi-rigid product. So they said they didn't think it was possible. But I have this very cool stepfather who's one of our founders and he is a visionary, I would say, and he said, "Let's just try it." "Let's do it." So, here we are four years later. Yeah.

Elena:

Wow. I had no idea about all of that. And also, I love that you used to buy carbon-rich feedstock and creating this really compostable cup. So that's where you are now, that's where you've come from.

What do you think going forward would be success for you? So, how are you going to grow the company or what other parts are expanding or what does success look like to you?

Raegan:

Yeah, so we just had our first big festival. Festival seemed like a really great application for this cup, because they don't have infrastructure, they set up somewhere really beautiful outside. People come to the festival, consume between 100 and 200,000 cups, amongst other things, and then leave. So there's the reuse systems, etc. We're seeing happening in some of the fixed locations, are not so possible with festivals. So, we got really lucky and found some amazing partners in a nonprofit called Rock The Ocean. They put on this big country festival in Florida during spring break every spring. It's on the beach, so they're really super careful about what kind of materials they introduce into the setting. They made our cups the cup of the festival. And so they consumed about, I don't know, 120-130,000 cups over three days. And then we partnered with a composting service, Renewable.

They are currently composting the cups, they did all the sorting on site. We documented it and I think for me, the aha moment was, ah, we need to redefine the way we think about supply chains. The supply chain needs to extend all the way through the end of life. We tend to all operate a bit in a silo and I'm the vendor, I sell you this thing, good luck. And the way that you need to work with something like a compostable product, especially when you introduce so many into one location is: Okay, so we're going to help you, partner with you to walk this all the way through. One, will get lots of feedback, we'll understand what worked, what didn't work, we can improve the product. It's a real partnership.

Elena:

Yeah, no, great. I was actually going to ask you about supply chains. I'm glad you touched on that, because I think when you are considering all of the different issues that come into why you wanted to do this in the first place, making sure that that end-to-end cycle is actually achieving the goal that you wanted to do. So, it's really great to hear that. And it sounds very successful, as well though.

Raegan:

Yeah.

Elena:

That's a lot of cups to have done, that's pretty exciting.

Raegan:

Yeah, it was. And I would say, there's been some fun things, we deliberately designed the cup, so that it was natural, it had no additives, no colourants. But in part, we wanted the end customer, the person holding the cup to say, "Whoa, what is this?" "Why this cup?" And, engage with the story of the material. And it works, social media can be your friend. And so, in this case, you see there's a lot of engagement with the material. People were really happy that the festival chose the cup and they left feeling good about that, as well as everything else, so that seemed like a win-win.

Elena:

Definitely seems like a win-win. And so then, taking those learnings from there, what do you think is key to re-imagining what the current system looks like in your context and as I always say on this podcast, in terms of changing the game?

Raegan:

What worked with the festival and what hopefully works in future events that we work with are educating every supply chain partner along the way. So that one, it is more expensive. It's more expensive to use a new material that isn't ubiquitous. Petroleum and gas are ubiquitous. They have subsidies all over the world, and they're super easy to access and they're super cheap. So on one end, we need to find clever ways in the short term to fund a more expensive material, a more expensive product. So in this case, we had sponsors, beverage sponsors, so we had the beverages, were involved. We had buy-in from the producers of the festival. We had buy-in from the people on the ground, concessionaires and the composter. So it was, everyone touching the cup, bought in. And then in the longer term, I would say, I'm tracking it, I have no idea if it's working, but extended producer responsibility, I'm sure you have policies like this on the books in Australia.

It's new here, it's nascent, but what we're hoping for and what I think will happen, at least in some states, is there'll be a lot more money available for things like composting facilities and helping. Well, several things, one, if you have a CPG brand that's on the fence about whether to make a commitment to something that's going to cost pennies more, pennies times millions adds up. If they have to pay for the privilege of polluting, they may reconsider. They may consider going with a new material. It's a bit of a dream right now. But I mean, I do think that the infrastructure will follow because of this funding.

Elena:

That's great to hear. And I would agree, I mean, I think you're right at the forefront of what is quite a big change and a big way of people thinking about their impact on the world and materials that they produce in their supply chains. So I would expect that over time, it's definitely going to get easier and cheaper to be able to do the right thing, I guess, with the product.

Raegan:

And I would say I haven't brought up at all, toxins, but that's a huge part of the picture. And I would just say here, at least, every single day and maybe it's because the Plastics Treaty is in the news as well, but conversations around PFAS, we just started legislating, drinking water, microplastics in your water, microplastics shedding off of plastic water bottles. I mean, I can't actually, that takeaway cup of coffee that's supposed to comfort you, has become to be a source of anxiety, right?

So I think another upside of going with something that is certified compostable, is it has to go through really rigorous testing. It has to produce soil that isn't full of toxins. I mean, they test it. They test it for echo toxicity. They test the entire environment that the composting is happening. That stringent testing is not required of almost any of the other materials that we use to serve ourselves food. So I think that, that shift is also really new, but it's coming. That's another really important part of this picture for me, is we really need to stop putting toxins in our bodies and into our environment, and then worrying how to clean it up later.

Elena:

Yeah, no, that's a really key point and something definitely to be aware of, that I think is getting quite a lot of focus, toxins in the body and what happens there. Well, I'm just really excited for this company to come and export things into Australia, so we can also use it over here, I think that would be a great outcome, so I look forward to that day. So moving on, just in terms of a little bit different, but in terms of your own personal commitment, do you have a personal commitment to net zero or nature in the next 12 months that you wanted to share?

Raegan:

Yeah. I mean, I think for me, I try already to compost everything organic in my personal and family waste stream. I would like to, if I can, move to more bulk purchasing. So I go to the farmer's market, because you can buy things basically outside of packaging. But I have to admit, the grocery store, it's really hard. I don't know how anyone really achieves zero waste, coming out of the grocery store, so.

Elena:

I know it is very difficult, right?

Raegan:

It is very difficult, yeah. So, I'm working on that. The other thing that I really try and do with Amazon, etc., in the world, it's easy to think, "Ah, a special occasion, what should I buy?" Whether it's an outfit or something special for a party. I've really tried to repurpose the way I think about things like, what if we did this and just use what we already have. It's incredible how much we already have, right?

Elena:

It is actually, yeah, it's definitely worthwhile thinking about that impact, thank you. Last question, if you could provide listeners with one action to take away, what would it be?Raegan:

That's a great question. I think that if you can't compost, then I think the other thing would be to just really reduce impulse purchasing. Buy less. Actually, I've been doing it for a while now and it saves you a lot of money.

Elena:

That is a good upside!

Raegan:

So, there's a really good upside. There's a really good upside, it's huge. And you start thinking, "Wow." I don't seasonally change my wardrobe or anything anymore. It's hard on my teenage daughter, but otherwise, it's very good for the pocketbook!

Elena:

Oh, well, thanks for joining us today and I really loved hearing about your company Better for All and the impact that you're making. So thanks again for joining.

Raegan:

Yeah, it's been my pleasure.

Elena:

Thank you for listening. I hope you found this episode both worthwhile and insightful. To learn more about our podcasts, visit ashurst.com/podcast. This Game Changers and Transition Makers mini-series follows on from our 30 For Net Zero 30 series, and I would encourage you to click on the link in the show notes to find out more.

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