Season 2, Episode 5 - Game Changers and Transition Makers: Revolutionising nature protection with Wilderlands

Elena Lambros:

Hello and welcome to ESG Matters at Ashurst. I'm Elena Lambros, the climate change and sustainability partner at Ashurst Risk Advisory. You're listening to the second season of Game Changers and Transition Makers. In this series, we meet global entrepreneurs who are embracing disruption to boost business performance and drive the sustainability agenda.

In today's episode, you'll hear my conversation with Ash Knop, CEO and co-founder of Wilderlands, a company with a vision to make biodiversity protection simple and accessible for all. And so without further ado, let's jump in and hear the discussion.

Thank you for joining us today. So I thought we might just start by talking a bit about your background, a bit about your business as well. Really interested to hear about how Wilderlands came about.

Ash Knop:

Yeah, so Ash Knop, co-founder and CEO of Wilderlands. Wilderlands is a relatively young organisation. We launched our platform a couple of years ago now. Prior to Wilderlands, I've worked in the not-for-profit sector or impact sector for organisations like the Salvation Army and World Vision and some cancer charities. And largely that was about, I guess, pursuing my own passions and interests in helping build partnerships and raise funds for meaningful causes.

And so when I met my co-founder of Wilderlands, Paul Dettmann, who's a sixth generation farmer, who from a very young age started to raise questions around how we can make protecting the planet a viable pathway for landholders and unlock private capital to make it possible that I knew I was looking at a visionary and an entrepreneur, somebody that I wanted to work with. And so after a heady amount of R&D and trial and error, Wilderlands was launched and here we are today.

Elena Lambros:

Great. So just a little bit of expertise and around terms of understanding real impacts in biodiversity and that farming background is incredibly useful. So I'm really interested to understand when you talk about impacts in biodiversity, it is getting a lot more focused now. We've kind of moved away from just talking about emissions reductions, but understanding the broader approach that you really need to be taking, that it's going to be beneficial in the long term for the climate, for the world. How do you think about impact and biodiversity and what sort of things would spring to mind if a listener is wondering what that would involve?

Ash Knop:

Well, I guess one very practical way to look at it is there are very few products that we use, in fact none that I can think of, that don't rely on nature either in their production or in bringing them to market through a supply chain. And yet as an end consumer, we don't actually generally consider what that cost is. We certainly consider the actual purchasing cost of an item, be it a piece of fruit or be it a drink container, through to technology and the built environment and a whole range of things.

And so it's coming to that appreciation much like we have about our impact on greenhouse gas emissions and how we measure, minimise, mitigate that is going through a similar process with our direct impacts on nature, measuring, minimising where we can, and mitigating. And that's really, I guess where Wilderlands has come about, is identifying that it is absolutely critical that we look after the resources that enable us to fulfill our needs, whether it's putting food on the table or clothes on our back, and we need to appropriately value that and we need to bring both individuals, companies, and governments on that journey to understand and to help put a true value on that.

Elena Lambros:

So you've touched on a few things throughout that conversation. One is you saw the need for this coming a few years ago. You're really working with people to value nature and put a price on that, and I imagine that feeds into your credit that you get for it. How does that work? How do you put a price on nature?

Ash Knop:

Why don't I explain a little bit about what we do and how we do it, and that might answer the question? So we've developed one of the world's first voluntary biodiversity credits. Ours is called the Biological Diversity Unit or BDU. And each BDU represents a unique one square meter plot of permanently protected, actively managed vulnerable habitat.

We work with landholders and conservation organisations who do the work on the ground. They adopt our methodology and we unitise their work. Their work is at scale. It's not obviously one square meter here, one square meter there. It's projects of 30, 50, up to 500 and 1,000 plus hectares. And they are doing this work for the purposes of environmental outcomes, and we are supporting them through the sale of credits which help fund the purchase and the protection and the ongoing and active management of these landscapes.

So ultimately, how do you put a value on it? We are getting better at that, and by we, I mean more broadly as a sector and as a society. We're getting a better understanding of the environmental services or economical services that the environment provides. But I guess from our perspective right now, how do we put a price on a BDU?

Well, we look at what does it cost to buy a site? What does it cost to go through a covenanting process to permanently protect that? And what does it cost to actively manage that land for 20 years? That is the rudimentary sums. And then in time, we will build out the sophistication, including their environmental services, the value to traditional owners, the value to local communities and tourism and the like.

Elena Lambros:

Great. I love that. It's such an amazing idea and you're describing what I imagine is quite a complex thought process in a very easy to understand way. And I definitely appreciate the future focus on First Nations and some of those considerations as well. So I'm thinking, if I was a business that was really keen to invest in these type of projects and get those credits, how would I go about doing that with you?

Ash Knop:

Well, I'd probably start by asking you what part of the business are you working on? And by that I mean, are you looking to engage with your staff? Because we work with staff-gifting platforms that enable your staff to receive 10 square meter bundles of protection.

Are you looking to, I guess, enhance your product offering to your customers? Say for instance, this year we partnered with a beauty brand called al.ive body, who for every product sold of a collaborative product that we developed with them, one square meter of our Coorong Lakes project, which inspired that very product, is protected, which is a fantastic outcome.

Are you running an event? We have partnered with organisations whereby footprint of that event is protected, and we create 10 square meter bundles for each of the delegates. And we've even created augmented reality experiences in these event spaces to bring nature in, birds flying around your head and the like.

So some really cool ways to engage various stakeholders within your business. But if you're coming to us with an ESG mindset and looking more at what does nature positive mean for us, and this is increasingly where inquiries are coming from, I'd suggest there's a couple of things that we can do.

One is A, understand what it is you're trying to achieve. And if for instance, that is you have operations, you have assets, and you know that your footprint and your operations on those assets take up a proportion of that, there is the potential for protection of remnant patches of vegetation on site that they themselves could become projects or be, shall I say unitised.

We've got the ability to very quickly assess the viability of ecosystems to their value to assess whether or not they are worthy of being, I guess, projected on our end, and can enable that and process that in collaboration with that company to help fulfill whatever goals may be aligned with that, whatever claims are required to support that.

So it's a bit of a, depending on who you are and where you're coming from. We'd like to think that we can solve many a business problem.

Elena Lambros:

In terms of your business, are you mostly focused on Australia at the moment? Is there offshore projects and how do you run and manage that?

Ash Knop:

Yeah. So we launched our platform two years ago with four Australian-based projects, all owned and managed by one conservation organisation in the first instance, an organisation called Cassinia Environmental. And what they've brought onto the platform are these four projects that represent different ecosystems and have different stories. We've got a woodland in New South Wales Riverina. We have a grassland in Victoria's Central Riverina region.

Our flagship project is our Coorong Lakes project, which is two hours south of Adelaide. And it's getting a lot of attention because it has been co-designed and co-implemented with the traditional owners, the Ngarrindjeri. And what's particularly special about this project is Cassinia has committed to hand the land back to its traditional owners once enough credits have been sold, once enough funds have been raised to help its ongoing stewardship. And they're the exact kind of projects that we are looking to establish in the future.

Since we launched, we've been inundated with inquiries from landholders and other conservation organisations, both locally and internationally seeking to partner with us, seeking to work with us, and so that we could help enable the unitisation of their projects. And frankly, it's just a matter of time.

There's a couple of things that I guess have held us back from turning on new projects. One is we want to ensure that there's enough demand to help fulfill the financing requirements of these projects. And as you know, the voluntary biodiversity credit market is still in its nascency. And so as it matures, and we're starting to see now more and more commitments from businesses in various sectors, those adopting TNFD nature-positive strategies and et cetera, there is growing demand.

On the flip side to scale internationally, there does need to be, I guess, the requirements to fit within our methodology or our principles. The core principles of permanent protection through legal mechanisms like conservation covenants and the like is not necessarily available to all jurisdictions. We're very fortunate in Australia, frankly, to have that mechanism, to have that, I guess, legal state-based mechanism that holds landholders liable to the outcomes of their environmental protection on their sites that have been covenanted. And the other thing is land ownership. It's obviously a contentious issue depending on what region you may be in jurisdictionally.

So there are a couple of things that would potentially need to evolve or adapt for our methodology to be adopted internationally. But it's certainly something that we're working with a number of organisations on because we're seeing a growing appetite for BDUs both in Australia and internationally. And we, frankly, our mission is to protect as much of nature as we possibly can through our mechanism, and that goes beyond our borders.

Elena Lambros:

Great. Thank you. And hearing about some of those projects, I can only imagine how beautiful they must be and how rewarding it would be to see them develop and flourish. So I guess that probably leads also into my next question, which is really around what does success look like for you? What are you thinking that future will hold?

Ash Knop:

So Australia, along with the rest of the world at COP15 in Montreal committed to protecting 30% of nature by 2030, which is a fantastic aspiration. Based on this commitment alone, Australia needs to protect a further 60 million hectares over the next five and a half years, which is the equivalent of 10 Tasmanias. That is a lot of land. It's a lot. And we don't have the panacea. We are not the solution for 60 million hectares, but we're certainly a solution for a portion of that.

So what does success look like for us? Well, it's helping the broader goal of achieving that, and not just in Australia obviously, but beyond that. I guess we want to be the first credit developer or partner that a landholder or conservation organisation or an asset manager thinks of when they are considering what mechanisms or what schemes or what ideas are out there that could help them help raise funds for critical works on their land.

And we want to be the first partner that be it government or corporate organisations, think of when they're on their nature-positive journey and looking for solutions to help them fulfill that. And we've got some great examples of relationships that we're building with TNFD early adopters, for instance, where we are looking to fulfill their nature-positive aspirations by our mechanism, helping establish projects on the sites of their operations where there are remnant patches of vegetation that need our protection and need ongoing management.

So we're starting to see examples of that occurring, which is great, but frankly we're still very early on. So as a small business, success means that we are still viable in 12 and 24 and 36 months, but our aspirations and our goals are obviously far bigger than that.

Elena Lambros:

Yeah, no really are big aspirations. But I think that given there seems to be quite a few early adopters in the TNFD in Australia, an absolutely great market for you to get in there now and develop. In terms of what you see as really re-imagining what this current system looks like, or I always ask the question, changing the game, what do you think is really key to that happening?

Ash Knop:

My take on that is probably one part naive and one part very positive thinking. We know we're seeing species loss at unprecedented levels and that there is growing recognition that biodiversity loss is bad for business. More than half the world's GDP is heavily reliant on nature. And so it is necessary for frameworks like the TNFD and for mechanisms, legal or otherwise to be introduced to help foster and build momentum in governments and companies and individuals, I guess taking more responsibility for their impacts on nature.

So one could say, well, it's about policy and it's about ensuring that there are appropriate carrots and sticks to ensure that companies are doing the right thing. And that will come, but actually, I think my take on this is to put it simply, it's about leadership. It's about who are the companies, and in all likelihood, those signing up as TNFD early adopters, how are they pioneering and putting flags in the ground and saying, "This is what nature positive means for us and this is how we're going about it."

Knowing that potentially by getting out there ahead of the game, that they are going to potentially receive questions regarding greenwashing or whatever it might be. But nevertheless, they're willing to take a bullet or two because they know that it's important for them for the viability of their business in the future, for social license to operate, for investor relations, for board requirements, for customer engagement, for staff retention, that it goes beyond waiting for the policy or legal mechanisms to enforce action.

But it's companies saying, "We are going to do this. This is important to us, we're going to act." And I think what that does is it helps create pathways for others to follow, and that leadership builds momentum more so than potentially other things.

Elena Lambros:

So changing tack slightly, do you want to just talk about your own personal commitment to net-zero and nature-positive outcomes in the next 12 months?

Ash Knop:

Yeah. Well, by far my biggest impact is travel. It's I guess a necessary evil as part of the work. And so above and beyond offsetting that footprint, my goal is to increase the personal patch of protection my family is supporting through Wilderlands. We subscribe to the Wilderlands platform. And so every month we protect a further 10 square meters of vulnerable habitat across Wilderlands' four projects. This is an opportunity that anybody can jump on through our platform.

And that's a really neat way for, I guess me, A, to engage with my young family and talk about what dad does, but also to explain and demonstrate through the storytelling that our team does and so on, what that actually means on the ground, what that means to endangered species, what that means to local communities and the like. So yeah, it's offsetting as I should, but it's also building on this patch of protection.

Elena Lambros:

I love that. I love that you've got your family involved in a patch of protection. That's ideal. I'll have to think about doing that when my kids are a little bit older to understand what that means. Final question is if you could provide our listeners with one takeaway, what would that be?

Ash Knop:

I think when we look at what's occurring at a global level, losing 70% of wildlife since 1970 and the eco-anxiety that we're increasingly growing with, and so it can be very hard. It can feel hopeless, frankly. And it's actually one of the reasons why we developed what we did, and that is bringing back the ability to have an impact down to one square meter. That enables individuals who may not have a lot of money to spend or may not have the skills to understand conservation and its requirements, but you can have an impact.

And so for instance, right now you can get on the Wilderlands platform and protect six square meters across our four projects. And you can do a hell of a lot more, of course, through your business. So whether you're an individual wanting to do something with your family or whether you're an ESG manager needing to make decisions on behalf of your business, one of the things that we are working on at Wilderlands is to make your engagement with nature that's seamless. And so we take a lot of the complexity out and enable you to both experience the impact that you're having and learn as that impact grows.

Elena Lambros:

Thanks, Ash. I've loved this conversation. Absolutely really admire what you're doing. Found it really inspiring. So thank you again for joining.

Ash Knop:

Absolute pleasure, Elena. It's been a lot of fun.

Elena Lambros:

Thanks. Thank you for listening to this episode of ESG Matters at Ashurst. I hope you found this episode engaging and inspiring. To subscribe to future episodes of Game Changers and Transition Makers, and to hear previous episodes, click on the link in the show notes or search ESG Matters at Ashurst on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And while you're there, please feel free to leave a rating or a review. And finally, to learn more about all Ashurst podcasts, visit ashurst.com/podcasts. In the meantime, thanks again for listening and goodbye for now.