Changing Climates: Equality Today for a Sustainable Tomorrow

Anna-Marie:
Hello, and welcome to the latest episode of ESG Matters @ Ashurst. I'm Anna-Marie Slot, Global ESG and Sustainability Partner at Ashurst. And today I have a special episode releasing on International Women's Day. Today we're going to take the time to reflect on this year's theme of gender equality today for a sustainable tomorrow, with two fantastic panelists joining me. Really looking at the disproportionate impact of climate change on gender equality, and recognizing the contributions made by women around the globe toward building a more sustainable future for all.

Anna-Marie:
As I said, today I'm delighted to be joined by Namita Vikas, Founder and Managing Director of auctusESG, and Harriet Lamb, CEO of Ashden, the climate solution charity. Both of my guests today have long careers working across emerging markets. Could you give us a little background about yourselves?

Namita:
Well, I am Namita Vikas. I'm founder of MD of auctusESG. I come with over 30 years of global experience in sustainability, climate and ESG finance and investments. As a part of a large bank in India over the last decade, I was instrumental in issuing the first green bond in the country in India, and raising over a billion dollars in capital towards green and sustainable finance, which included finance to women-led groups.

Namita:
AuctusESG, the company that I have founded now, works with financial institution, governments, multi-laterals on sustainable finance and climate strategy, ESG and climate risks. And I'm very proud to state that auctusESG very recently was awarded the UN Women SME Champion Award for exemplary practices, embracing the women's empowerment principles in India. And on the occasion, may I wish everybody a very happy International Women's Day.

Anna-Marie:
Thanks so much, Namita. And Harriet, maybe a little background from your career as well?

Harriet:
Well, likewise, it's a pleasure to celebrate International Women's Day with you all. I've spent my life working on the issues of global injustices. I spent 15 years leading Fairtrade in the UK and globally working with smallholder farmers and workers. Again, always seeking to put a spotlight on and to empower women within that.

Harriet:
And it's now an absolute pleasure to be leading the climate solutions charity, Ashden, where we run a prestigious award scheme, which is currently open so do take a look at our website and see if you might be interested to apply for one of the Ashden awards. Where we're really looking for organizations that are finding solutions to the climate crisis, but also those solutions that address inequalities and injustices. And so we're often very particularly looking for organizations that have helped to empower or women as part of addressing the climate crisis.

Anna-Marie:
Excellent, so two very experienced guests here today. I guess, first question maybe, maybe let's take it as a question. Does the climate emergency disproportionately impact women?

Namita:
Yes, the answer is of course. And I would think that women, from an overall perspective, women have been disproportionately impacted on account of the gender stereotype. Right from walking long distances to fetch water, firewood, inhaling toxic cooking smokes, to the risks that women face on the roads. I mean, there are enough [inaudible 00:04:00]. And women have been at the receiving end of conflicts of all kinds, which further compounds their vulnerabilities.

Namita:
I mean, currently amid the ongoing Russia-Ukraine crisis, with an estimated 80,000 Ukrainian women to give birth over the next three months, the impending maternal health crisis is really dreadful. And this trend is immutably reflected within climate impacts. For example, 80% of those displaced by climate-related disasters are women and girls. And this only is not the one problem in a laundry list of grave issues that women face due to climate crises. Such, I mean, to add to the list are increased homelessness, poverty, sexual violence, health issues. And furthermore, these afflictions are complex, ranging from gender-based violence to worsening maternal and neonatal outcomes.

Namita:
If you take an example of something that happened here in India, Cyclone Amphan, in the Eastern [inaudible 00:05:04], the Eastern part of India. Witnessed after the cyclone happened, the country or the region witnessed a sharp spike in the number of child marriages. Such instances established that not only gender and climate are profoundly intertwined, but also that they bear the brunt of climate crises, which is felt much harder by women.

Namita:
Just a last point, the IPCC report that was released this week, it also resonates with this. It reports that women are subject to gendered climate implications when it comes to food security, health disasters, and much more. And while women are essentially the hidden engines of sustainable development taking on rural roles as stewards of natural resources, engaging in climate mitigation adaptation efforts, I think the overall recognition to them remains painfully limited. Largely due to the social cultural norms and lower socio-economic status that they bear. So I think, yes, overall the question, the answer is yes,

Anna-Marie:
Thanks, Namita. Harriet, are you of the same on the same page there?

Harriet:
Well, broadly speaking, absolutely echo everything Namita has said. I think, but let's be clear, the climate crisis is also a crisis for the whole of humanity and for nature. And the latest IPCC report that Namita mentioned, which just came out, underscores in red ink yet again, yet, again, the scale of the crisis we face. The horrors that we've already seen, we've already seen those escalating disasters, and the pace will only pick up. And the urgency therefore of picking up the pace and scale of our responses.

Harriet:
And making sure that when we do that, we're also addressing inequalities. Because the tragedy is that the impact of the climate crisis is felt differently by different groups. And it's felt hardest, the hardest hit are those who of course have done the least to contribute to it, the poor and the marginalized, those living in the poorest countries of the world. And within that, it is indeed, as Namita said, women and girls who are the most adversely affected by disasters. And yet, it is really women who are front and center of seeking to find the solutions.

Harriet:
I was looking back in the history books at the history of the big [inaudible 00:07:49] climate change talks. And of course, we just had COP26 in Glasgow. And back at COP1 the delegates were 88% male. Now that's got better, but you still find that it is overwhelmingly, it's now 65% of the delegations are men. And actually if we want to get the kind of change we need, we'd need to be flipping that.

Harriet:
There's a very brilliant quote from Mary Robinson, who is Chair of The Elders. And she says that the climate crisis is a manmade problem and we need a feminist solution. And I think putting women front and center of the solutions we need will really help us find those ways forward that both address their positions in society, and then enable them to take a lead on finding the solutions we need to the climate crisis as well.

Anna-Marie:
Interesting data points across both of your comments. I think, and an interesting opportunity, we've talked about the setting the stage on the disproportionate impact.

Anna-Marie:
Harriet, maybe to your point, what do you see then as the opportunities? Because there are, I think, quite a lot of great solutions that are coming, especially around climate emergency risk mitigation. Is that field, do you find that accessible to women? Do you think that there are opportunities there?

Harriet:
Well, I think in general women are underrepresented, as I was saying, in the solutions to the climate crisis that we need. If you look, for example, at the whole renewable energy sector, which is obviously absolutely critical to the way forward, women only count for about 30% of the total workforce.

Harriet:
And actually women are the ones, they're the ones who do the cooking. They're the ones who spend more time in the home. So actually addressing the needs of women and enabling them to lead this way forward is one part of the way to address that as fast as we power down coal, oil and gas, we need to be pairing up renewables. And that will particularly benefit women who are still the ones that most in the home and having to cook, for example, without energy.

Harriet:
But this is not just an issue in emerging markets. The recent LinkedIn report just came out on green skills and they show that all around the world, since 2015, it's been absolutely stubborn that for every 100 men going into green talent, there's only 62 women. So you've got these stereotypes that are holding women back from, for example, becoming electricians or going into doing retrofit.

Harriet:
And that's true, whether you're talking about the UK or whether you're talking about Kenya. It's the same story of the norms and stereotypes that are limiting the career choices of women and girls. And lacking their access, and therefore actually holding back the pace at which we can move towards a greener economy and a greener society. Because all the research coming out, for example, of LinkedIn's research or the World Economic Forum, everybody is putting their finger on the fact that we are going to face a gap in the skills that we need to make this transition to a greener economy and a greener society. We need to be investing now, including in particular in women. And we're so privileged at Ashden to see many wonderful examples of women-led organizations.

Anna-Marie:
More women in the game and great opportunities, I think, for women to lead. I think great responsibilities also for men to take up sharing in the work that has been traditionally female, so that there is more space for everyone to be more even across those types of work.

Anna-Marie:
Namita, you come from the finance background. That is an area, as I know well, traditionally male dominated. What are you seeing in terms of from where you sit? What are the opportunities there in sustainable finance for women?

Namita:
I think, I mean, the way I would put this is that there is no quick fix for the formidable challenges that sit in front of us. But empowering women through finance, I think that's one of the key to be able to bring in the gender equity that we are talking about. And in order to empower women with financial access products need to cross gender lines and approach women as individual clients with complex financial needs.

Namita:
So listening to their needs is a very important aspect, and this becomes more pertinent given the intensifying climate impacts and the associated vulnerabilities that I spoke about. I'll give you a case in point, and that is the microfinance business. And we see this in emerging markets a lot, that has almost over 80 to 85% of women borrowers. And they have a proven track record with an average NPA of about 4% in markets like India. For lenders, this translates into a lower portfolio at-risk, lower write-offs, lower credit loss provisions, and better credit risk, which makes it an absolute business case.

Namita:
This financing stream has successfully tapped to the underserved and unbanked markets. And similarly there is a need, or there is so much of opportunity to innovate and create a sort of financial products centered around women with extra benefits and with the wow factor. And products around blended finance, for example, are proving to be very effective within agenda finance.

Namita:
And one of my favorite examples that I want to cite here as a financial innovation that I was personally involved with and I launched, towards financial inclusion, livelihood security. If you look at the Western part of India, there are about 48,000 women making salt in one of their deserts in one of the states there. Now to make salt, the whole process, the main input is diesel. And these are unbanked, underserved markets with no access to credit. So these women borrow at anywhere between 36 to 100% rate of interest from local money lenders and get into a credit indebtedness. And after laborious hard work of seven months, when the salt making process starts, they are left with around 300 to 350 US dollars for a seven month rigorous process, because they have to pay back the loans that they've taken from the moneylenders.

Namita:
And therefore a blended finance facility that we thought off, after speaking to these women, was created to move them from diesel pumps to solar pumps. It instituted a grant for credit enhancement, so there was a guarantee that was given for the loans that were dispersed. There was a credit affordability factor that was brought in, interest subvention, with a very low rate of interest of 8%. And then a capacity and awareness building to create master trainers, building toolkits, and supporting the staff of the NGOs that were working with these women who help them run these solar pumps.

Namita:
One amazing point was, in the first season that such a credit facility was put in, their incomes went up to $850 for the seven months. Just look at the whooping increase in their incomes. And this particular project facilitated access to mainstream debt finance to over 600 women and farmers, transitioning them from energy inefficient diesel pumps to eco-friendly solar pumps. They had higher savings that got accrued and also less utilization of diesel.

Namita:
Such interventions help break the vicious cycle of increasing debt and income inadequacies through addressing financial inclusion, accessibility, affordability, and availability of credit or capital. As well as positively impacting the health of women, because they're inhaling through the process, while tackling climate change by significantly reducing emissions from your diesel pumps.

Namita:
The point that I'm trying to make here is that such financial structures that can be replicable and can be mainstreamed would really boost women's access to affordable financial services, and the same time reducing their vulnerability. So I think in the world of sustainable finance, we need to see more and more of such models coming up .and with technology at the fingertips, there's so much that we could do from a reach standpoint.

Harriet:
And Namita, I have to come in here. I didn't realize, because we at Ashden we're really closely involved with the same solar salt ... The work that the women were doing with the salt, and they were actually a finalist for one of our awards. So that's lovely to know that we were both looking at working with them, that's amazing.

Harriet:
And I'd just like to share another really interesting example like that, also from India actually. There's a brilliant organization called BVT. And what they found was holding back women being able to start up their own enterprises, including using solar energy, was that when they went to the bank to try to get a loan, the bank managers were typically dismissive of them. Both because they knew nothing about renewable energy, and secondly, because they were women.

Harriet:
What BVT undertook is to train thousands of bank managers in Karnataka state in south India so that they were actually much more aware about and understood the business potential of women-run enterprises using solar, for example, to power their sewing machines. As one example of how that then enabled the women to take out loans and establish successful businesses. It's often going all the way back to a whole ecosystem approach that can really help empower women.

Harriet:
And to give another example. I thought at the beginning, Namita, you were talking about the coming together, tragically, of the climate crisis and conflict, and often they are connected. And Ashden actually also gave an award to UNDP's work in Yemen, where they were working with women just 20 kilometers from the frontline of the fighting, people who'd been displaced and were completely dependent on incredibly expensive and polluting diesel.

Harriet:
And what UNDP did, again, it was giving the loans that enabled the women to set up a cooperative, where they run solar powered pumps and sell the power then to the people in the village, which obviously helps them get electricity much more cheaply than diesel. But critically also, help people run their own businesses. And including, for example, the shop could then have a fridge and could therefore keep and prevent food from going off, as well as serving cold drinks.

Harriet:
And what was amazing, I mean, Yemen is bottom of the United Nations list on gender equality. And here were these women graduates who felt never be able to have a career or a job, now they're running a cooperative, they're selling energy in the village. They're proving what they can achieve and earning respect as a result. And so now the idea is going to be replicated and taken out to other villages. And there are many such inspiring and exciting examples, and they need the targeted investment in backing women to enable them to show the way forward towards those green jobs and livelihoods.

Anna-Marie:
Fantastic examples from both of you. Thank you so much for sharing those. I think, what you see in that is that holistic approach to E, S and G, because that touches on all of those aspects. It is an environmental thing, it is a social thing. It is a question of governance so that you can ensure that all of these systems are working appropriately. And brilliant examples.

Anna-Marie:
I think, we've shown what some organizations are already doing around progressing gender equality, and you're clearly both trailblazers in sustainability. And I would argue role models for the next generation of climate change pioneers, regardless of gender, those pioneers. With prominent young activists like Greta Thunberg, do you think it's important to have more of those people in play? Do you see them developing in different parts of the world, as you're working across those emerging markets?

Namita:
Yes, I think, we seeing so many women who are on the forefront. And I think decades of subordination have nudged the women of today to be vocal about their rights and opinions and ensure that everyone listens. So right from climate summits, parliaments, boardrooms, I think women are leading the change, bringing in the much needed empowerment, autonomy and improvement. However, I want to just bring in a twist here. Gender inequality needs to be considered less of a ... I mean as less of a choice, and more of an inevitability at all levels. It needs to go beyond lip service and provide women the space and the opportunity to succeed.

Namita:
One of the things that I have observed and have been reading also, like Harriet, a little bit of history, conventionally men were the bread earners and women were the nurturers. And this mindset continues even today in the context of working women. According to some of the surveys, and in fact in a classic Indian example, is Indian men devote only about 97 minutes, that's less than two hours a day, to unpaid care responsibilities, as opposed to the five hours spent by women.

Namita:
This really brings, asked to a point of the entire life cycle of women, which is very different from their male counterparts, a woman's natural life cycle has marriage, childbearing, housekeeping, prime responsibilities, caring for elderly parents maybe. And therefore our challenges and complexities are very different and unique. And mind you, it is not limited to just emerging markets, but I think I've seen this phenomena worldwide, that keeps gender equality at bay.

Namita:
While we see more and more inclusivity that's coming into societies, into organizations, I think it's beyond providing flexibility of working hours, work at home, new types of work that has come about, extensions in maternity leave, childcare support. I think it is all about supporting and nurturing women through their lifecycle. I think that becomes very important from an inclusivity standpoint. And I mean, within organizations, 30 years I've had a corporate career, organizational approaches away from gender biases, providing opportunities, and paving the path for women to grow into senior roles with adequate mentoring of course, I think that is what true integration would be.

Namita:
And on another note, I mean on the topic of gender inclusion in the way today's generation is seeing it, it is more often directed towards men. However, in my opinion, it's both men and women that have a big role to play in creating this whole inclusive culture. I mean, assumptions that women are not fully effective on account of, say, family pressures, child care, these have proven to be biased and we've seen how they're as successful. I mean, I get blown away with the kind of young people who are today's CEOs of their companies, who become unicorns, their startup have become unicorns. And they're driving businesses, and at the same time proficiently handling their household responsibilities. I think that is now what I feel is very, very important when we look at this larger lens.

Namita:
And just a last point, and very interesting, [inaudible 00:24:41] test, as stated by Professor Iris Burnett of the Howard School, she says that it revolves around five areas. The first is the process, how fair is the treatment for women in a society or in an organization? What do the outcomes look like in terms of pay diversity matrix or rewards? Overall behavior of family members or colleagues, what is women's daily experiences like? The feeling of power, is her voice counted, and the sense of belonging.

Namita:
I think, all of this are towards creating enabling environments, and I'm so glad to see more and more young people breaking that glass ceiling. And while we vehemently deny the glass ceiling, I think at every stage in a girls' or woman's life, right from childhood, which [inaudible 00:25:33] faces maybe the education glass ceiling. As a young adolescent, the priority and the encouragement that is given by the father and the family are very dependent on those factors. After marriage, support by the husband and his family to pursue a career or to take that work path. The enablement then further by the organization, the boss, the coworkers, I think all of this has to come together.

Namita:
These are not terminologies, but these are enduring mindsets that start maybe from the childhood at home, providing opportunities, respect, education. And then determines also the self-esteem with which the girl children or the girl child, and helps the woman develop into a confident human being. I think, it all, like Harriet mentioned about ecosystem, I'm just coming back to that point. And more and more young people are seen in this light, and of course there's much more that we can do.

Harriet:
I really agree with you, Namita. I think it is so inspiring, and we have so much to learn from the next generation, from these leading activists and their insight and passion about the climate crisis. As well as how it connects with other injustices, including gender injustices. As well as making sure that we're addressing the climate injustices against them or in the marginalized.

Harriet:
I mean, they're just really inspiring to all of us. And I think we can take energy from them, because they're saying it how it is, they're saying it plain. And that's giving a mandate to all of us, to companies, to finances, to all of us in our daily lives, to really scale up the action we're taking to reaching zero carbon. And we would believe at Ashden, we've got to be working towards a targeted zero carbon by 2030 and restoring nature along the way. And I think in that some companies are leading the way and are showing the way for governments to follow, but it needs all companies to be really putting their money behind the solutions to the climate crisis. And responding to that energy from young people for whose future it is.

Harriet:
So I'm really thrilled, at Ashden we started a coalition campaign called Let's Go Zero 2030, which exactly responding to the energy of young people, is seeking to help all our schools in the UK reach zero carbon by 2030. And so far we've got over 1,100 schools have signed up to the campaign, the word is spreading fast. And then we're calling on government and companies to listen to and get behind young people and help them make the buildings in which they learn fit for the future. As well as ensuring that what they learn gives them the skills they need, those green skills, to help make all jobs become greener jobs.

Harriet:
There are no profits in a dead planet, so the only way forward has to be for all companies and all of us to back these kind of initiatives that address the crisis. And that help empower those, such as women and the poor and marginalized, who have been bearing the brunt of the climate crisis, but can actually be leading the way to the solutions.

Anna-Marie:
Excellent points from both of you. And I think real food for thought for anyone listening in. Last minute wrap up, one thing that you think that somebody ... A piece of advice to someone following along in your paths, what do you think, Namita?

Namita:
Well, I think we need to talk about gender. We need to think about gender not as a peripheral subject, but as a mainstream subject. Because at the end of the day, I mean, in our society, there is a women participation. So even from a corporate lens, business models need to incorporate these aspects when they look at their products, their services, innovation, the technologies are playing a big role. We've seen how some of the technologies are really breakthrough.

Namita:
And Harriet mentioned about the energy example. And I have heard about Solar Mamas, where there are women and girls who are trained to do maintenance of solar panels. And that's a huge big hit where they're learning to do that. And they're earning, I mean, incomes coming through that. As well as they're benefiting in a big way as they're going through the learning curve.

Namita:
I think, overall it is very important to look at this whole topic in a very holistic manner. Walking the talk, I think is very, very important. Gender responsive innovations and approaches, as I mentioned, which are built on the back of women participation. Inclusion and focusing on the bottom of the pyramid, because I think women at the bottom of the pyramid are the most affected. And I mean, us, who have been so far on the corporate ladder, done things in life, we may be 0.1% to my mind. And it is very critical to create a very strong case, which leads into a holistic economic, social and environmental advantage that the tripod that sustainability stands on, you see.

Namita:
I think that's really what is required. And top of my mind, and we hire women who want to come back into their careers, who have taken some time off and want to come back. Or those who are coming from the bottom of the pyramid, who are at a disadvantageous position, but we believe that with training and with mentoring, they would be able to come up the curve very fast. I think it's very important to support these causes as women, and as well as being proponents within the society.

Anna-Marie:
Great, Namita. Harriet?

Harriet:
Well, I think absolutely these two future visions are connected. All the research shows that the more women are in power, the more seriously they take sustainability, and the more they will enable other women to flourish.

Harriet:
And if you could just do one thing, I think it would be to encourage women to see a future in green skills and green jobs and livelihoods. Whether it's designing the new clean cook stoves of the future, or whether it's pioneering retrofiting of our cold, drafty homes here in the UK. Whether it's helping tackle inequalities in banking, such that today in Sub-Saharan Africa only 37% of women have access to a bank account. Tackling that could be one of the ways to go forward, to enable those women to set up greener businesses.

Harriet:
To give you one quick example. SMV is a brilliant company, actually again in India, which is helping women first drive electric rickshaws, and then earn enough money so they can own their rickshaws, and again, improve both their status and tackle the problem of the polluting rickshaws. Or to give another example is the Mahila Housing Trust, who worked with women who were ... With temperatures soaring, to go back to the scale of the crisis we already faced, to 48 degrees. I mean, unbearable for those women to stay in their homes., And yet they're self-employed.

Harriet:
And so what Mahila Housing Trust, was helped those women come together and as a group take action. Simple things such as painting their roofs, white, putting bamboo on the roof. Different ways, affordable ways that they found that then have enabled those women lower the temperature in their houses by six degrees so that now they can stay at home and earn a livelihood.

Harriet:
And I think from initiatives like that, through to teaching children in our schools about the climate crisis or planting more trees, there are so many ways that all of us as women can have exciting green leadership roles for the future.

Anna-Marie:
Thank you both so much, and really appreciate your time today.

Namita:
Thank you.

Harriet:
Thank you.

Anna-Marie:
Thank you for listening to this podcast. We hope you found it worthwhile. To learn more about the issues we've just covered, please visit ashurst.com/podcasts. Make sure you don't miss any of our future episodes by subscribing via Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. While you're there, you can also listen to our other episodes and leave a rating or review. In the meantime, thanks again for listening and goodbye for now.